if you want to hear me ramble about church for an hour…

blog if you want to hear me ramble about churchlast month i had a one hour conversation with chris yaw from churchnext, which is dedicated to resources & support to nurture healthy churches in all kinds of different ways.

it seemed like some of the video was a little slow at the beginning but then it started to kick in, but you can always just do audio.

it was fun, pretty much i just ramble about church for an hour, so it’s definitely not for everyone.

my favorite parts are past the mid-point.

if you want to listen in, check it out here:

i’d love to hear any thoughts that it stirs up!

have a great weekend.



Kathy Escobar

Kathy Escobar is dedicated to creating safe and brave spaces for transformation and healing in real life, online, and outside. She co-pastors at The Refuge, a hub for healing community, social action, and creative collaboration in North Denver, co-directs #communityheals, a non-profit organization dedicated to making spaces for transformation accessible for all, and is the author of Practicing: Changing Yourself to Change the World, Faith Shift: Finding Your Way Forward When Everything You Believe is Coming Apart and several other books.


  • “When you put relationship first, when you put people above programs it gets really messy.” When we put our relationships with Jesus first it gets really messy as well. We can’t just lay a fleece out overnight and see if it’s wet or dry in the morning. We have to constantly seek the hiding places of God in our messiness and disarray and spider-filled corners of the barn.

    Ingrown eyeballs!! LOL!

    I love the idea of Christ being the one who uncovers the image of God that is within all of us … and who causes the scales to fall off enabling us to see the image of God in others. Love, love that!!

    This IS an interesting season … a tipping point … loving to be playing a tiny weeny little part in this unfolding story with you.

    • thanks, jim! i love tipping points, they are so freeing. scary but freeing. so glad you’re here and thankful for your love and support (and all you are doing over at faith under construction, too).

  • awesome pontificating!
    when i hear you describe us, you capture it so well. and it reminds that while our format and structure are so simple, our ideology is quite complex. it is an intricate web of such interelated ideas and values.
    plus, i thought as i listened, wow, i forget how much we do and try. you represented us well and honestly.

  • I do not agree with the host that we are all nothing without Jesus. Thank you for not agreeing with that but saying that in following Jesus we find ways to discover our own self worth and our value to God and to others.

    Traditional Christianity and the institutional Church seem completely lost to me. I find little if anything in either that is relevant to my life or to our often difficult and desperate world.

    The prosperity gospel. Right wing politics in the church. Arrogant power hungry ministers. Sure, there are some out there doing their best to be authentic and loving and caring. And I honor them.

    But that is not what is being modeled as “church” today.

    So thank you for what you are doing. It is such a refreshing and needed change. I don’t see how anything else can help us “tranform” in meaningful ways that is not somehow connected to our own humanity and to that of others.

    • thanks timothy and glad you found your way here. you have much to add to the conversation. yeah, it is sad, what is being “modeled” as church. what is supposed to be the best reflection of Jesus here on earth, “the body”, is sometimes the furthest from his ways or example…


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